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Mucking Poker Hands Randy asks:
We had a situation arise in Texas hold'em at a home game and we need to settle a dispute.
Player 1: Ah, Ac
Player 2: Js, 8s Flop Ad, 10c, 6s At this point player 2 goes all in and player 1 calls. Player 1 flips
over his cards and shows his pocket aces. Player two believes himself to be beat and passes his cards to the dealer face down announcing that he lost. Other players at the table said he could not muck his cards and made him show the hand. The turn and river cards were both spades giving player 2 the flush. Obviously player 1 says that he mucked the cards and could not win the hand. But other players at the table said that you do not have the option to muck your cards when you are all in, heads up. Who is right and is there any official rulebook that can be referenced in regards to this? Wow Randy, this is one heck of a tough situation to analyze. First things first, if this is a cash game you have every right to muck your cards if that is your desire. No other players can prevent this occurrence, so if you were playing a cash game, and player 2s cards entered the muck, then player 1 wins because his/her opponent folded. If you were playing a tournament, the problem is that the outcome of the hand has a material affect on the other players at the table. In this situation (a tournament) under usual conditions, player 2 does not have the option to muck their hand. Their hand should be turned over, and the showdown stands. This may differ from place to place (eg. house rules may differ), but the default position is that player 2 cannot choose to fold after going all-in. However, if the cards entered the muck (and were not obviously still outside the muck) then they cannot be safely retrieved. This would mean that player 2 loses the hand - usually, it is up to the pit boss to decide if cards can be retrieved from the muck. In a home game, you would hope the dealer would make the decision. I usually feel that if the cards, either one of them, fully enters the muck, then the hand is dead. If they landed outside the muck (or just sat face down in the middle) then they can be retrieved, and player 2 rightfully wins the hand. If the cards were safely retrievable from the muck (which, unfortunately requires a judgment call) then I think that in a tournament the fair thing to do would be to turn the cards over and let them speak. Nevertheless, if this were a cash game, I would have to support player 1's claim that his opponent exercised the right to fold/muck his hand, because in a cash game other as the table have no material interest (or at least, no right to assert one) in the outcome of the hand, and unlike in a tournament where player 2 could be trying to cheat by mucking a possible winner (to benefit player 1), in a cash game this would not be an issue. In short, if this was a cash game, my ruling would be that the fold/muck stands. If it were a tournament AND the cards could be safely retrieved from the muck, then I would rule the hand live. I suggest, though, that before your next game, everyone agree to this ruling style to avoid future disputes. A good reference for poker rules is Bob Ciaffone's "Robert's Rules of Poker", which I in fact referenced for this question (although I could find only a partial answer). Good luck at the tables!
- Coach
 
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